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| Japan vs the world | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 4 2010, 12:20 AM (1,043 Views) | |
| hooflung128 | Jul 4 2010, 12:20 AM Post #1 |
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Let me start off with a disclaimer. I love sports talk radio. I am a big sports fan (not sports games) and I listen to AM radio daily. I love Tim Brando and Monty and I am washed in what is happening in College sports. One reason I do listen is that they toss out ideas as to get into a discussion on a certain subject. Enter my post. What I want to do is introduce a discussion about the video game industry. Specifically about Japan vs the rest of the world. Here we go. When I was growing up we didn't know much more than what we got from Gamepro or Nintendo power. Many cities didn't even have stores that carried video game systems except for atari 2600. We had to go to Sears or Service Merchandise and buy, yes buy, a catalog for that year. You'd go to the toy section and once you got passed the He-Man and GI-Joe pages you would find the Video game systems. There you could see the Atari XE system, the NES and the Master System. Later the Genesis and TG16 would come into play. The rise of the SNES was almost parallel to the exit of the catalog ordering and the rise of boutique shops. What I am getting at is most of the video game scene was a conversation held by individuals at school, in arcades and while in the living rooms. Nearly one thing would start to be certain especially when we started beating games... the Japanese influence. All these wonderful games that were different than our Pac Man and Tetris were almost always Japanese. I don't even know if I can state an American, or European, after 1988. I'd probably just assume it was Japanese. Going into the 32bit and early 64bit generation one thing was certain is that Japanese was strong. However you saw the emergence of western based titles. Now this wasn't that odd, as the PC was also gaining a lot of ground and most titles were Western. The First Person shooter is synonymous with America imo. So fast forward a few more years. Microsoft pushes full force into the gaming industry with the Xbox and a lot of titles happen to be Western completely if not heavily influenced by western style. Yet the PS2 seems to be doing well in Japan and tons of japanese titles remain favorites. So... why is it that I am getting the feeling that the Japanese influence is coming to end in regards to dominance? Why is it that western games are starting to really capture the market share? I am going to put out a few ideas, ones I may or may not subscribe to but are nonetheless great for conversation. Idea 1: The Japanese were technologically ahead of us and had the market on lock down. Those days are done and generations of western gamers have now become the CEO's, developers and artists. Idea 2: The Japanese are used to programming techniques that is more hardware oriented. They love to get at the hardware and the United States, Europe and Taiwan are forcing a more PC oriented approach to game development. Idea 3: The Japanese aren't breaking any new ground in plots. There is only so many ways you can tell a story about finding a sword, leveling up and saving the princess. Idea 4: Games are beginning to resemble movies in their to-market cycle. Japanese companies are having compete for a finite amount of money which is pushing the Japanese to release titles either geared towards Westerners OR their countrymen, but not both. Idea 5: Cultural separation is starting to peak. The 'import' culture is now its own market and the there is no need to target westerners. They are happy with their games and if western otaku want to import it they will import it, no need to change. Idea 6: The Japanese are just as relevant as ever. They just cater to a different gamer than the BioWare, UbiSoft or Bungie crowd. Now, their could be no true right answer and in fact it could even be a non starter. However, I personally believe it is an issue and the Japanese are loosing a lot of their identity and influence in the world. Maybe not in Japan but definitely outside of it. What do you think? |
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| RegalSin | Jul 4 2010, 01:24 AM Post #2 |
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Well, just to keep this short. Many games from the west is just a bunch of pretty gimicks. Give me any title and I will review it. We understand the world sooo much we don't really care about Japan anymore. We don't have the money to buy sloppy seconds. Libararies are murder scenes. Movie places are shutdown thanks to stupid flatscreens beig bigger then life widesreen crap. Everybody is downloading like hell, hacking things just to save money. Blockbuster is crap nowadays. They are even trying to wipe out, books. You gotta be a fool to invest in a tablet/Itouch. People like myself is buying the games from long ago. A crazy bum can pick up 14 year olds on facebook, and get away with it. People are addicted to SIMS. people are addicted to special effects. Look at Sin and Punishment, original and then look at the Wii's game. Tell me this. The original looks far superior then the new game. Just look at them. Tell me this. Which is more appealing. Even SOnic. Look at the original Sonic. A bright, big blue sprite versus a crum bum 3d object that twists and turns all over the place. Aliens, give me a break. Look at Bomberman. He went from cutie pie space man to a dominatrix. They had the best with the N64, then they screwed it up, on the Gbc with the max version ( they had the GBC RPG series. ) So what the hell happend on the GCN? If they made a third N64 game continueing from the fourth installment would it be the same? HEll no. Look at bomberman hero, why not make a sequel for that. Of course all the bomberman fans would care nothing about it, since it is on the Wii, 360, PS3. Sony sued over this. Nintendo sued over that. Capcom force Shinji to port. The fairly land arcade shuts down. Nobody cares.Stop using your cable television. don't buy anothe flatscreen, Resist, resist, and resist. Tell your kids to become doctors, so that nobody from another country will take our jobs. They had the Kamikazi artists, while we had the erasict self hating politicals. The US is looney tunes, along with the Europeans. I have no hate, but all I can say is this, one day somebody might replace me. |
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We are all being lied to. We need to stop buying new videogames, destroy every 360, Wii, and PS3 you can find, including ones in stores. . Funcoland died when the evil gamestop took over. There is no more dragons den. Burn all the new videogames. destroy, and burn all 3d neo games. Fill ever forum with the message that we all need to hear. 2D OR DEATH. | |
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| Richard | Jul 4 2010, 11:31 PM Post #3 |
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Certain Japanese mogals are losing their edge, but as far as the overall gaming market Nintendo is king. If I am not mistaken they are the number 9 company in all of Japan and that is from a 3 year old source(they are only getting stronger). I feel that once dominate companies such as square well squareenix now are losing their edge. They are getting out competed by their western counterparts and are confused in what they are trying to do. Sega is great and all, but they have also been falling. Also, almost every Japanese company has not even dared to touch the fps market which is such a huge market in the west. Simply put tastes are changing and many Japanese companies are not putting out the quality of old. Also, the western companies are growing and growing and are younger than their Japanese counterparts. Lots of fresh ideas with newer companies. Mixing shooters with rpgs? Bioware vs Squareenix is a perfect example of the west vs east gaming philosophy. One innovates, provides two extremely popular genres in one package, puts the production values in places that matter most, and pleases its fans. As the gaming scene grows more and more will come out of the West. The Xbox is a big factor also. A USA made console that competes with Japanese moguls. |
 In a realm beyond sight. The sky shines gold,not blue. There,the triforce's might Make mortal dreams come true. PSN: MicrosoftSnake XBL: xCKx Snake YouTube Gaming Channel http://www.youtube.com/user/TriforceRich | |
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| RegalSin | Jul 5 2010, 02:39 AM Post #4 |
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Okay, you know what, Instead making a lame responce, I will just say this. None of us are hard working creative anythings at all. We are not hollywood or anything. We are just some dudes and dude'ts who buys, downloads, and plays stuff and bitches about it. Until we have done something, then go on to say stuff that is not true and in no way we can back up. The reality is this. To sum up this conversation. Goosbumps, tom soyer, and captain underwear is not comic book, but books. People in the west would rather watch captain underwear then read the comic. People in the west are allergic to comic books. In Japanese land, they have comic books about doctors. Like the ones in your "House" , "General MD" , or "doctor quinn medicine woman". Even if they had comic books with such material, nobody would read since nobody would like the art alot. I could go on to bitch about violence in the west and how I was a teen laughing with this fourty year old guy, in Funcoland over a enmey sprite dying. I could even be romantic about, and go on about the colorful nightvision. I am just not going to. To sum that story up, my favorite comic book/videogame store has a marienes army enlistment place built right next to it......blah blah two year old's childrens say the N-word. Nobody in here has the right bitch. Nobody in here has the right to say another unless they actually done there homework. I do even have the right to bitch about anything. Until we see your cellphone game, or MSX program. Maybe we will all see our fictional game creations, and then we could go on a bitching rampage. Then we could say........"Not only can we take over the entire planet, we can take over the whole phucing universe!@! Mwha ha ha 4111!! blerg!!!!! |
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We are all being lied to. We need to stop buying new videogames, destroy every 360, Wii, and PS3 you can find, including ones in stores. . Funcoland died when the evil gamestop took over. There is no more dragons den. Burn all the new videogames. destroy, and burn all 3d neo games. Fill ever forum with the message that we all need to hear. 2D OR DEATH. | |
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| hooflung128 | Jul 5 2010, 03:05 AM Post #5 |
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Um... what the heck are you babbling about? Speak for yourself about 'doing something.' I am pretty accomplished in my career in programming with many years left.
Edited by hooflung128, Jul 5 2010, 03:10 AM.
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| Andsy | Jul 5 2010, 03:58 AM Post #6 |
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My opinion on Japan a big player in game design really hinges on the success and direction of the 3DS. There used to be a time when Japan was the dominent figure in the gaming world, a seemingly unstoppable behemoth. As time went on however, the magic either faded, or I stopped recognising the level of awesomeness I was accustomed to. When I think of the Japanese Gaming figureheads, all I can conjur up is the nonsense anime style rubbish, effeminite young lads with silly hair and huge swords, and rather suspect cutesy cartoon animals designed using various sized circles. In my mind, Japan has become caught up in these three stereotypes, they've lost any sense of originality. I'm struggling to think of the last Japanese game I enjoyed beyond 'Demon's Souls', and even then that's got silly ass huge swords. You do get the occasional diamond in the rough, but Japan needs to wake up and shake off all their OMG SO CRAZY stereotypes. What happened to you Japan man, you used to be cool. Oh, I forgot to mention. If you're <18 and a boy. You're opinion on Japan is null and void.  Cos you kids go flippin' gay for that stuff. Baffles me, truly does.Edited by Andsy, Jul 5 2010, 03:59 AM.
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VSigma100: If I've learned anything on here it's that Andsy is a crazy bastard. LOL. | |
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| RegalSin | Jul 5 2010, 04:04 AM Post #7 |
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Announcer A: But first somebody from the UK, says something that is completely unrelated to the wonders of PAL television  Narrator: ( har har har ) went RegalSin with his horse teeth smile, RegalSin said to self proclaimed programmer hooflung128, with his captain kirk voice, that he likes the listen to echo. RegalSin: Let me put the obvious responce. What works of human foklore have you worked on? and should anybody really care? Narrator: Self proclaimed programmer hooflung128 responded with..... Announcer A: Now the same person from the UK talks about his amazing horse and it's sweet sweet lemonaid, oh sweet lemonaid, sweet lemonaid followed by a solo number via electric piano. Edited by RegalSin, Jul 5 2010, 04:08 AM.
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We are all being lied to. We need to stop buying new videogames, destroy every 360, Wii, and PS3 you can find, including ones in stores. . Funcoland died when the evil gamestop took over. There is no more dragons den. Burn all the new videogames. destroy, and burn all 3d neo games. Fill ever forum with the message that we all need to hear. 2D OR DEATH. | |
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| Andsy | Jul 5 2010, 04:05 AM Post #8 |
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Dude, don't be an ass. |
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VSigma100: If I've learned anything on here it's that Andsy is a crazy bastard. LOL. | |
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| muragaru553 | Jul 5 2010, 04:31 AM Post #9 |
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I would have to say it is an assortment of those ideas you listed. There are really so many different reasons as to why Japan's death grip on gaming has slowly crumbled. You could go the route of saying the Video Game Crash back in the 80s allowed Japan to seize control and over time that control faded away (Japan had quite the economy back in the 80s before the 'bubble' had burst and it still hasn't truly recovered from it.) You can also look at it as the 'exotic' appeal of Japan has faded due to growing globalization and shrinking borders. Some of your parents, may have loved Japan or anything Asian and some of that may have rubbed off on you or has turned you away from it completely. I grew up in the States, but moved to Japan to work and it definitely doesn't feel like I am on the opposite side of the planet. Another possibility is the large growth in popularity for manga across the world. In a way, it would be a sort of 'brain drain' against gaming. Japanese companies try to please Western gamers by changing some aspects of their games (Star Ocean 4 comes to mind). They try to please them because they make a bigger portion of the 'gaming' pot nowadays. Which leads me to my last little note... The Gaming Culture: In Japan, games are considered only for children and a person is viewed negatively if they are 'discovered' to like and play games. One of my Japanese coworkers seen the collection of games I have been amassing for 7 months now and he was really relieved to see a foreigner like Japanese games so much. The thing that sticks out, however, is that he immediately started to ask me if anyone knew of my 'dark secret.' Games are feel almost Taboo because of what the general public sees, which can be some pretty graphic stuff. Now flip over to the States and the Gaming Culture has exploded and it is cool to play video games. Well, not all of them:p Games are not that geeky thing as it was seen back in the 80s and early 90s. Who knows, maybe we have Pokemon to thank for that or something, haha. So, yeah, there are so many different external and internal forces causing the decline of Japanese influence in gaming worldwide. However, with Nintendo's campaign of targeting casual gamers; you have to truly wonder how much of it has actually declined rather than perceived. @ Andsy Those stereotypes will probably never fully die out in Japan@_@ |
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My 3DS Friend code: 2148 - 8833 - 4520 Ao no Kiseki  Nayuta no Kiseki (July 26th)  Power on Podcast: (Youtube/Latest Episode) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esaWXwEXSb4 血の海に沈むがいい！ (Archive) https://ia601402.us.archive.org/0/items/PowerOnPodcastPortableEpisode21/Power%20on%20Podcast%20Portable%20Episode%2021.mp3Contra III vs. Gunstar Heroes | |
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| KingJames88 | Jul 5 2010, 10:07 AM Post #10 |
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What a shame this thread has gone down the toilet half way through. I have to say I agree with you a bit, mainly for the fact that there are a ton more gamers here in the west than there used to be, so certain Japanese developers are starting to create games with us in mind, thinking we wouldn't want/like/appreciate a game they would put out in Japan. In the past they would make what they wanted because gaming was still something only a small group of people did, and that group of people had a very small age bracket. These days, every type of person you can think of plays games, and the way you market a game seems to be more important than ever. As you said in your original post as well, the standard rpg story wasn't as standard back then, so it was something new and interesting and these days there are plenty of people that will stay away from games like dragon quest because the story isn't up to par with the action most of the western audience is used to seeing. (I really enjoy dragon quest by the way, I just needed an example) |
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| RegalSin | Jul 5 2010, 10:44 AM Post #11 |
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Japan economy dropped right after the US navy pullled out of there harbor. This was 1989 I believe. The economic bubble occured during the 1995. The bubble is far from what you are saying. They were going threw reconstruction from 1945-1960-1989 something. Yes one could say Japan had peace but threw common mistakes ( which has nothing to do with videogames ). While I know people will deny this, you can blame Israel on the current state of the economy. After 1945 the Zionists ( people who believe they need to have a state for the Jews) got there wish and this eventually led to rising oil prices in the middle east. This affected the United States, and other places as well. The economic bubble did not hurt the gaming industry at all. The economic bubble put people on the street like business men. This is why places like Sliph Co. had beds to sleep in.
Wow I mean, that is a nice piece of information. Next your going to tell me that it is not the 1920's and it is 2019. How you can do this and that in Japan like go to Toy's R Us. Next your going to say. Well I do such and such.
Yeah we can point fingers towards something I mentioned earlier. Yeah the comic books took out the poor videogames. Yes people got sick and tired of western nonsense. Those people would probably jump to Japan as well, but instead develop a love/tollerance towards there own culture. .................
I love Star Ocean series, and before. I regaurded as being the best of the best in terms of RPG series before I discovered Y's. However I was a Nintendo FalsaDoom Conan follower. Constantly commiting suicide with virtual pets. Then finally they released the Wii, changed up the stories and I got sick of it. I am a artsy person and I along with the rest of the world is sick of the Uncann Valley crap. That was the final straw. The final straw had to be when I realize Link was making no sense after the N64 game. They made a rerelease game on the GBC that made it seem, that Link in the past series was just a kid and not a young adult. They made people buy Mario party 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. A bunch of party tricks to keep you hooked. I believe in a direct interpretation of fictional elements. Not just little tricks. Look at bionic commando. Oh great you fall threw the skies, and then have a face off with Bush. I like the way the made it look like a movie, and how they decided to do the most dumbest thing, and acredit the original game instead of making a new game all together. Then people like me go posting about it, and people open there eyes. The only reason, why I don't own any of the other SO asides the Nintendo games, is that I hated the PSX soooo much, in the past. I got tired of the brainwashing and the last game system new I own was the GCN. I do not own a 360, Wii, or PS4. I don't want to buy any SO games for those systems. I really want to support Tri-Ace. However Tri-Ace believes there consumers is on the uneeded systems. If they just released a game for a 2d system that is no Nintendo, SEgA, or something else. Maybe they would rise again I am 100% convinced the PC is the ony good game console. It get harder and harder to care when they stop supporting your setup. The game culture is a bunch of downloaders who does not care about anything else. They are skating the edge in culture. Not jumping to Japan like you did. They are like an unorganized military of Windaria. They are the losers of the US nation. Not yuppie's who has everything.
Show me the article abot that, by a Japanese person.
Yeah, he was releived so that you and him could have something incommon. Maybe he felt it was better for you to be into videogames then call girls  Not to derail the conversation.
A taboo in Japan is like going against practices of culture and religion. I am not talking about owning a cowboy hat, or having a european wife. Japanese are nationalist. The most who are not, is reason why the nation is slipping up. In fact Japan after 911 along with other nations, has became ever so more hatefilled towards outsiders. For mimicing them, for the middle east nonsense. Thanks to the internet we know this, and they know this.
Your point is like fifteen years too old. Most of us got older, and do not care about the hyper 3d games. The gimmick of 3d got old. I hate 3d games. The iphone you have people buying five dollars for each downloadable stage. I say lets just be happy with that. If anybody could remember the Phantom game system, that was going to only have downloadable content??????????
Nintendo Just made that up, since everybody knows the Wii, is a GCN with pixie sticks.
What are you saying we are having loads of phun recycling the same points over and over again from differnt views. KingJames88
We also have homosexuals. Asides that, this is why the population is decreasing. This is why there is soo many Chinese people taking our Jobs. We are what Japan was in the 1970's but only without the cooooolllneeesss of the 1970's. Anybody in here is a 70's guy please give a shout out...
This is why it is failing. Everybody is playing follow the leader. Look at the Comeback RPGs on the 360.
That is a lie. They did what they wanted to do, since it was working. That is why they did what they did. If your talking about the 1990's, that is because the internet was not a place of people brambling nonsense and downloading files. Back then people had rom devices, and the ISDA was barely up the arse of those indivisuals producing the hardware. Mostly Euro, since they cheat all the time on PSO.
Those people just got jobs, got married, and don't care. It is a division of consumers. Like the rocky song said. East versus west. . What was the last game you marketed? Tell me of your business venture and or plans of world domination?
Why was turned based RPG's from Japan, a standard back then? Don't you mean to say, that westerns could not see how Japanese turn based RPG games was really just DAD in disguise. Also how people still even in this day and era can't even understand Zelda and how it is a RPG.
Dragon Quest has never had a realease in the USA for the longest time. All there games have been in Japan, forever. It was ony until the eight game, the DQ title was dawned in the West. The reality about DQ is the consumer base in the west was practically non exsistant. When Sqaure released Final Fantasy VII, it was not talking to the consumer. It was not a big thing. They figured the majority of PSX owners had some sorta brain on there shoulders. Before FF7 peoplw in the US was into Mario, Sonic, Nights, Shadowrun, and War of the Gems. Just before FF7 there was the pokemon hype created with the cartoon show. Many people in USA never owned a Gameboy without MarioLand or Tetris before the pokemon hype. In fact before Pokemon, there was the Gameboy "Play it loud" series. Nintendo just lined up the consumers for the new pokemon games. Pokemon the animation camed out. People brought the games, got addicted. Sqaure released FF7 on the PSX for adult consumers ( people who brought into the Playstation hype ), and instead of adults kids brought and played the game. At the same time Sqaure had Mario RPG which allowed Nintendo owners to actually find out what an RPG was. Along with the DAD people ( EverQuest, Zelda, Shadowrun ). The DAD peoples during the 1990's laid down the foundation for the Japanese to take advantage of the west. Not only this many companies was importing animation and comics from Japan. Nintendo and Sony worked together to take advantage of the westerners from the start. It was a power ceg just waiting to go off. Like this. 1. People got into board games. 2. Japanese make videogames like board games. 3. Medevil festivals, Shadowrun, DAD 4. For years Sqaure/Nintendo and other people from the east wanted to penetrate the western markert. Like a Animation person said " if the animation sells well in the west, then I would do another one. Strider, Final Fantasy Adventure, and Startropics, Faxdanu was made for the funny faced westerns. --------------- Time passed 5. ------Nintendo creates Super Gameboy, Gameboy pocket, Iceblue. etc. 6. Nintendo had pokemon in Japan. ------time passed ( we had the yo-yo trend around the world at the time. Remember the 200 dollar yo-yo ) 7. Tamigotchi appeared in the westerm hemisphere like a big pizza pie in the sky. 8. Nintendo released pokemon the animation in America first 9. Nintendo released the game in conjunction ------time passed ( there was SEGA netplay, Nights etc ) 10. Around the same time, Sqaure released both Mario RPG and FF7. ----------THE REST IS HISTORY........time passed. ------- skip pass 11-20 ------- since we know this already. Last ten years. This is the adult world, This is the time when we should have grown up. Many of us did not. Many of us is still being attacked not by society but our sleves. May god have mercy on our souls. This is the time when people start to adopt the politicals, that we have tried to escape and could careless about when we were alive. 11. People used the internet. They exchange info. 12. People start buying things online. Instead of speciality stores. 13. Prices drop. 14. Everything destroys itself. 15. GAME OVER GAME OVER society is completely losted it's boggle. 16. Downloaders appear. 17. The Kings Plaza movie teather is clooosed dooowwnnn fooorrreveerrr. No kidding a big sign in the mall. 18. People continues to die in the middleast for no reason at all. 19. The creative world conintues be currupt by the fruit of knowledge. The apple. 20. ExRegalSin appears, and attmepts asorb everything and then himself. LORD, LORD,LORD,LORD,LORD,LORD,LORD,LORD,LORD,LORD,LORD,LORD. I bet the you played the games with translations. Just like the rest of us back in 2000. Edited by RegalSin, Jul 5 2010, 11:34 AM.
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We are all being lied to. We need to stop buying new videogames, destroy every 360, Wii, and PS3 you can find, including ones in stores. . Funcoland died when the evil gamestop took over. There is no more dragons den. Burn all the new videogames. destroy, and burn all 3d neo games. Fill ever forum with the message that we all need to hear. 2D OR DEATH. | |
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| Jonny Justice | Jul 5 2010, 11:55 AM Post #12 |
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Someone PLEASE ban him. God. This is really getting annoying. Anyway. Capcom made a statement just a while ago about how Western games seem to be doing very well in Japan, and that the Japanese influence seems to be dying down. Lately Atlas basically picks up any Japanese games that Western gamers want, and publishes them. Capcom and Atlas seem to be the 2 "big dogs" as far as staying alive, simply because they are catering to the wants of the US, which Capcom stated. Something has to happen to bring back the novelty of Japanese genres. Nowadays every 16 year old Call of Doody fan thinks only FPS games are worth playing, and that games like RPGs or Strategy games are pointless and lame. Far from it, the games are actually...you know...way more creative, and not pulling from the same wars (WWII and Iraq) for 20 years on end. I don't think its the Japanese market that is the problem, it's the closed mindedness of Western gamers. EDIT: Here's that statement/story I was talking about. http://www.neoseeker.com/news/14224-capcom-japanese-gaming-market-in-danger-of-fading/ Edited by Jonny Justice, Jul 5 2010, 11:58 AM.
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| Xsleepyx3 | Jul 5 2010, 12:23 PM Post #13 |
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@RegalSin holy shit dude.. 0_0 on to this topic... i honestly think that japan has always been on top of this gaming industry with thier technology is a bit advance then some other parts on the gaming industry. come on they have some of the best games ever. they are the best. though they are small for a country with such great ideas. Edited by Xsleepyx3, Jul 5 2010, 12:23 PM.
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| RegalSin | Jul 5 2010, 01:40 PM Post #14 |
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Well Xsleepyx3 asides the good lord, on to this topic... Japan only looks advance since people do not know them well enough. People have became smart over time. People like the ones on this forum has gotten to know the magical land of Eurasia. During the late 1980's the Japanese coldwar was everywhere. People was getting into Japanese media all the time. There is many films that depicts such things. Like all those robot movies that features at least one Japanese product like "Bladerunner" for example. RIGHT NOW ON A FORUM NOT TO FAR AWAY. PEOPLE IN JAPAN IS HAVING THIS VERY SAME CONVERSATION. Why is American products soo advanced. What is soo cool about America. blah blah blah I want an import stuff from America.
People let them be the best. Who is to say, we can't make comic book. In USA we have cartoons instead of Manga. In USA we have Movies, In europe there is plays, in China there is plays, instead of Kabuki Teather. In USA we have mormans, Medevil instead of fishing villages, and Bushido. The reality is that we just absorb a piece of them into our own culture. Like the way the got usted to the westernization. Think about Japan during the 1960's. Drugs, sex, and world gone mad. A world where your daughter was playing prostitute to the enemy, a world where people drove bikes gangs, a world UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF REFERR MADNESS. The present day world a mordern world. A WESTERNIZED WORLD. During this time, Japanese people was going under the transition of the westernized people. Not only did people grew up after the WWII bombing, they wanted to do something. Remember Japan sacrificed there art student for the war effort. This is why they are probably so keen on art. You think the west is the only ones, who said "Japan has got the right idea??? Back in the 1970's there was many comic books from China. China had there own comic book types. Look at the Koreans comiuc book types. Did you know some comic books from Korea is published in tokyopop ???? Especially the drama's. During 2000 even India was attempting to release there own comic book systems. Flash foward to the west. There is artists like Michael Poe in 1999 who did babylon Jones, exploitation now, and ErrantStory........... I am getting sick of backing up the Japanese. The reality many people in the world for the longest has been creating there own kind of comics all over the world. Look at Rob Scharabs Scud and it's animated " cartoonish " . Even Sincity is a heads up. Look at Hellboy, and why people like him. Even wolvereine from the X-men. Why do you think people favor him. For the longest, we have spite oursleves. We have had the politicals of hate in our western nation. Being a target for people to dump there monies.
Well the population in Japan has a big gap. If you have a hand full of people in a nation, working on something. Constantly generating, then the money flow is constantly replenishing itself. This also proves why in no way the Fictional industry is what hurted Japan but kept the money flow inside of it. Look upon some interviews with it's creators. .................... Capcom made a statement just a while ago about how Western games seem to be doing very well in Japan, and that the Japanese influence seems to be dying down. Capcom, as of now is a heavy 360, supporter. They are probably only saying this, to back up there own hydes. Can anybody make sense the so called Capcom statement? Anybody wants to guess what this all add's up to? Like what games? The last I understand Atlas is the people associated with Techno's and the original Digital Devel games. Atlas is the people in control Digital Devil.
As stated before, Capcom is a supportor of the 360 and Atlus has every wanna be ( unlike but like myself ) trapped in the USA. I see this guy in my classroom playign the Online game 24/7 hours a day. Another brainwashed vicitim.
Well parents buy the game that is most talked about with kids. My nephew who is six plays CAll of Duty online. Also my cousins who are kids play the games online as well.
They need a reason to get into it. You can't just release a product and expect everybody to buy it. You need some way for people to know your product exsists and becomes wanted. Look at pokemon for example.
Like Sony said. It is downloading on the internet. It is people who are gamers who do not have jobs, or have other things to tend to then jobs. It is mass media competition, from Apple, Microsoft. It is the fact that Microsoft is an American company. Racisim has nothing to do with it. It is just pride in one nation. Like owning an American car and being proud of it. Edited by RegalSin, Jul 5 2010, 01:46 PM.
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We are all being lied to. We need to stop buying new videogames, destroy every 360, Wii, and PS3 you can find, including ones in stores. . Funcoland died when the evil gamestop took over. There is no more dragons den. Burn all the new videogames. destroy, and burn all 3d neo games. Fill ever forum with the message that we all need to hear. 2D OR DEATH. | |
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| hooflung128 | Jul 5 2010, 05:09 PM Post #15 |
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Level 7
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RegalSin, you are an idiot. |
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| Direngrey911 | Jul 5 2010, 06:56 PM Post #16 |
Tanzbefehl!
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I just spend a while reading this thread, and others, and have to say I agree. |
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+ "Mit den Mauern brachen die Herzen, im Bombenhagel, in der Stadt. Hab dich verloren in diesen Tagen und jede Stunde an dich gedacht! " +  + | |
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| muragaru553 | Jul 5 2010, 06:58 PM Post #17 |
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(ノ^^)八(^^ )ノ
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Nice little read there. Your remark about Western gamers` closemindedness was something that completely didn`t even cross my mind. My brother kind of fits this idea. He really loved RPGs as well as shooters, but as he grew older and I left for college, he slowly started only playing shooters and saying all other games were trash@-@ Tying this to one of the things I had mentioned before, this general consensus about games in the West (primarily speaking about the US) could be the result of gaming being embraced rather than seen as dirty, nerdy or creepy. 2 Notes: 1. Call of Doody - hahaha, nice 2. If Keiji Inafune is saying this, then where the hell is our Megaman Legends 3? 
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My 3DS Friend code: 2148 - 8833 - 4520 Ao no Kiseki Nayuta no Kiseki (July 26th) Power on Podcast: (Youtube/Latest Episode) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esaWXwEXSb4 血の海に沈むがいい！ (Archive) https://ia601402.us.archive.org/0/items/PowerOnPodcastPortableEpisode21/Power%20on%20Podcast%20Portable%20Episode%2021.mp3Contra III vs. Gunstar Heroes | |
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| Jonny Justice | Jul 5 2010, 08:27 PM Post #18 |
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That's what I want to know. I have a feeling MML3 could well be on the way. I feel like Marvel Vs Capcom 3 will let us know...if Trigger is in it, as he was with Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom, I feel like that's hinting that he's really trying to get the fans to cry out for it so it can happen...even though we have for a long time. |
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| MisterStretcy | Jul 5 2010, 09:12 PM Post #19 |
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First off, I spent about an hour reading this. Anyway I also think that its the Western market. Since the release of the original Xbox its been more for the US and FPS. But before even with the Dreamcast you had the Sonic Adventure's (a little more western than the older ones) and you had Shenmue and Crazy Taxi, Soul Calibur. The last two being ports of arcade games as well as the Marvel vs Capcom. Then after that its been just year after year the same game over and over again. I think there are enough people that would buy a Jap. game now that it would still sell well. Just not as much as COD |
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| KingJames88 | Jul 5 2010, 09:59 PM Post #20 |
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Ds Games!
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The problem is that even though there are more people that would buy the unique Japanese style games now, the people that would continue to buy CoD type games over shadow them and make it appear as though gamers in the US don't appreciate some of the strange ideas the Japanese give us. Thankfully developers and publishers have been getting more brave with bringing over some more niche games, especially on the ds. Games like the dark spire and etrian odyssey don't sell too well over here, but atlus brings them to us anyway so hopefully that continues on to the future and more people are turned on to these types of games. |
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>>My DS Collection Here<< 194 games and counting! | |
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| hooflung128 | Jul 5 2010, 11:40 PM Post #21 |
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I think the Japanese culture definitely holds the top tier rung on the hand held ladder. However, and this might be completely biased and refutable, I think that hand held units are not very influential to gaming as a whole. I will concede that hand helds hold hours of fun and that there are many ideas you can only initiate on them. But if you look back over history, they simply do not break new ground often and when they do it is only recycled in the hand held market. Now the Japanese are an interesting culture from me looking in, and I see a lot of addiction oriented trends there. Portables are a perfect match for addiction oriented games with no equal on the set top box. But far too often I think the norm is that hand helds recycle far too much set top ideas leaving the influence of the market as a whole left to the set top boxes. Simply put, the DS recycles SNES/N64/PS1 more often then it comes up with something new. Even the games that might seem new are just titles that PC gamers enjoyed from the days of Lucas Arts and the SCUMM games. Now I do believe the 3DS will change this. But for now, hand helds are used as cash injections to keep the set top projects afloat. Microsoft hit gold with live, pun intended, when they found they didn't need a game boy competitor when they saw they could suck the life force out of our pockets with online. No way shape or form do I think it costs as much to run their Live! network. Yes, it costs in the millions for sure, but they aren't loosing money- in fact I'd wager they come out like bandits. Anyways, that is where my conundrum is with hand helds in the discussion so far. I'd like to hear a rebuttal to my notion. |
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| KingJames88 | Jul 5 2010, 11:49 PM Post #22 |
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Ds Games!
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I don't have much of a rebuttal, only that like you said, the ds reuses a lot of stuff from the nes, snes, gameboy, pc, genesis and ps1. I agree with that completely, however the thing that draws me to the hand held is the same. I don't need to get an snes if I want to play chrono trigger, or go hunting for an old pc game like wizardry, or even look for a genesis with sonic 2 if I wanted to play it. I do feel, however, that developers are willing to take chances when making a game for the ds, because it wouldn't be as much of a loss as it would be on the ps3, 360,or even wii. There are those certain games you can always count to come out on a hand held but nowhere else, and that's my main draw towards them. |
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>>My DS Collection Here<< 194 games and counting! | |
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| hooflung128 | Jul 6 2010, 02:27 AM Post #23 |
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Level 7
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I agree with that completely KingJames. I want a PSP for those very reasons. Star Ocean and Persona remakes? Yes please. It is also true that the loss is lower, because the development kit's are cheaper. |
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| hooflung128 | Jul 6 2010, 02:37 AM Post #24 |
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Level 7
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Oh one more thing I just thought about that might be a factor. Could the japanese gaming market be a bit burned out because of the lack of rentals? I know that rentals are going out in the USA but they are being replaced by services like Gamefly who have really started to target the 17-35 market on Adult Swim commercials. I know that many Japanese gamers have the whole rat race where you play a game so fast you then take it back to get near game value. I could only imagine what a Japanese collector goes through, culturally like Muragaru explained but also financial! Could years of this rat race helped erode the market or is this not an issue? |
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| muragaru553 | Jul 6 2010, 04:15 AM Post #25 |
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(ノ^^)八(^^ )ノ
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You definitely hit the mark about hand helds being an excellent source of cash flow by taking console hits and porting them or remaking them. However, doing this was a very good idea, business wise on the Japanese side of things and more than simply money, if that makes sense. In Japan, the largest, by far, mode of transportation is by train. So, by making these hand helds and porting wonderful classics, anyone can enjoy them during their train ride. By releasing remakes and ports of older games, it is targeting the older generation of gamers that may have fell out of love with gaming as they grew older. Playing hand helds, specifically the DS, on trains are generally seen as an OK thing to do because there are 'cute' games like Nintendogs and so women will play it too. (That's pretty much how that boils down, haha.) Since, people here in Japan eat these games up and buy into more and more, Nintendo really doesn't need to do too much. To be honest, they really needed this after how bad things were looking after the Gamecube. This way, Nintendo could present a new hand held, because they dominate that market, and use that to introduce brand new games and not simply port games. If you look at the GBA, it was churning out a lot of games specifically for it (i.e. Fire Emblem, Golden Sun, Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga). I guess in short: The DS was a system used to make bank for what was lost from the Gamecube and all that occurred at that time with consoles. Hand helds hold a heavy influence in Japan, because it caters to Japan on a societal level. (I think that's what I want to say@_@) -------------- I think you bring up a good point about rentals kinda dying out and it is VERY good point in describing the crazy acts of buying a game and blitzing through it to sell it back for a very good return in Japan. With physical rentals dying out in the US, I imagine that that would cause a downturn for Japanese companies when they want to ship games over to the US. Not only would the amount of copies go down, but the exposure would dwindle as well. As for the rat race in completing a game, I really don't know why they do that, but I am willing to take a stab at it. They play through it so fast and beat it, only to return it for a great price because there are so many games that come out. In doing this, they would save a TON of money yet they would still have at least enjoyed and if they really like it, they could always rebuy it down the road for a really cheap price. Doing this has also got to be a boon for the used electronic stores like Geo and Tsutaya since they can resell the game and still make back what they pay customers for their trade-ins of recent releases. Hell, they may even make more money from doing this, but I don't know how they set the prices and what not. So, I could be way off@_@ This is also something I wanted to note for anyone who ever reads articles talking about how games are dying in Japan because of game sales. This may be another reason attributing to sales screeching to a practical halt when the released game enters into its second or third week of selling. Why buy new when you can get a cheaper practically brand new version of the game to play? Collecting games in Japan is actually fun and easy, because I can get some fantastic deals at stores all over. I bought Suikoden II in great condition only for roughly five bucks. That's not to say some of the more rare games aren't expensive; I dropped 150 for Fire Emblem: Thracia 776 Deluxe Pack. The biggest thing is having a combination of will power and money to buy enough, but not the whole damn store, which I have wanted to do some times, haha. In short: Decline in physically renting games could be hurting Japanese companies, but I truthfully do not have any proof to verify or disprove it. As for the rat race, I don't think it is causing any harm. Collecting games in Japan is fun. -------- By the way, remakes for the PSP and DS are awesome. Sometimes, I would rather play a hand held than a game on my TV. So, being to play an Ys or a The Legend of Heroes games on my PSP makes me all warm and fuzzy on the inside. Sidenote: Now, if they could stop remaking of Tales of Phantasia, I would be happy. Seriously, I own it for the SNES, PS1, GBC and PSP. Plus, they're releasing the spin off dungeon game remade coupled with Phantasia next month on the PSP. I mean, I will buy it (Preordered and I get some novelty item:)), but this amount of remaking is a bit too much I think... Hell, there's probably versions of it I am still missing, like a PS2 version or something@_@ |
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My 3DS Friend code: 2148 - 8833 - 4520 Ao no Kiseki Nayuta no Kiseki (July 26th) Power on Podcast: (Youtube/Latest Episode) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esaWXwEXSb4 血の海に沈むがいい！ (Archive) https://ia601402.us.archive.org/0/items/PowerOnPodcastPortableEpisode21/Power%20on%20Podcast%20Portable%20Episode%2021.mp3Contra III vs. Gunstar Heroes | |
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