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| Why does the US hate socialism so much? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 31 2012, 03:24 PM (2,493 Views) | |
| lol_pc | Jan 31 2012, 03:24 PM Post #1 |
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So, I know the majority of people on these boards are from the US, this thread is sorta directed at you, because for obvious reasons you can give the best answer. I've watched a few of the US election debates, and a theme seems to occur all the time, hatred towards socialism and how it doesn't work. It just baffles me that they can say that it doesn't work, when so many countries around the world have adopted a socialist democracy, sure some countries take over board like Greece, but for the most part it works quite well. I can take my own country, Denmark as an example. Sure we pay some of the highest income taxes in the world, about 44-48% of our monthly income goes to the government, but it doesn't mean we can't afford daily luxuries and even with our high taxes we still drive modern cars, buy new houses and go on vacations. What does that tax money do for us then? Well, we have free education, free medical care, goverment paid retirement, financial aid for the unemployed and students above 18 are paid a monthly salary through a program called Government's Educational Support. Those taxes also ensure that people in the lower end of society have a chance in life, you don't need a rich family to get a big education, you don't need to pay a huge check in order to get medical care and you can get help to get back on your feet. Of course everything isn't perfect, only a fool would think that, you can't expect the government to pay for everything in your life, but the big things are covered. And this is the case for most socialist democracies, and if you think it halters the development of a society, it doesn't, we still live in first world countries, we still have all the tech and luxuries of the modern world. But why, specifically in the US, is socialism colored as this evil communist system? It has nothing to do with communism, it's a democracy, we just pay higer taxes to cover everyone in society. Lastly, and i'm not trying to start a huge religious discussion, but why is it that in a country where the majority of people claim to follow the teachings of Jesus, the poor and weak are left behind? I'm not trying to offend anyone, i've just been wondering about this for quite some time. Edited by lol_pc, Jan 31 2012, 03:25 PM.
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 Fin moron do Taazokaan fen kod zeim ul  | |
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| turbogamer2point0 | Jan 31 2012, 04:28 PM Post #2 |
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No offense at all. I'm sure people around my age range (20-30) wouldn't mind the change. It's our grandparents who seem to fear the change (and why not? they were taught to be scared shitless about a bunch of issues). It would be nice to have all the benefits (education, medical, and the like) you guys have. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you already know, our country is made up of narrow minded people with one thing in mind: money |
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| TheSecretGameRoom | Jan 31 2012, 04:29 PM Post #3 |
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I really agree dude , I hate when watching these debates how they always dont touch on socialism as if they are scared of it. Socialism is a brilliant concept evidently shown in your Scandanavian countries , and it is something i would personally like to be further implemented in the U.K where i live. Sometimes I do get very frustrated at these ignorant Republican Candidates. |
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| fonzi_rulez | Jan 31 2012, 05:31 PM Post #4 |
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Well, our nation is based on the fact that you have to work to get your money, from what I understand and have read about socialism is that, its spread the wealth, aka Joe Blow is paid to sweep the floor and gets paid the same amount as the guy that runs around and troubleshoots computers. It is also my personal belief that you should work to get your money. No offense to anyone though, that's just my 2 cents 
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| TheSecretGameRoom | Jan 31 2012, 06:38 PM Post #5 |
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No this is not true , socialism does not spread out wealth entirely equally. |
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| lol_pc | Jan 31 2012, 07:32 PM Post #6 |
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You have been misinformed then  Socialism doesn't mean that you don't have a free economy, and there's still a huge difference between paychecks, it all depends on the job and qualifications, just like everywhere else in the world. But where socialism and capitalism switch paths, is caring for the poor and the weak. I'm not saying that there's no homeless or poor people in socalist countries, because there is, I doubt you can find any country without it, but they have a chance for a way out of that life, if they really wanted to they could even get a Ph.D for "free".A common misconception about socialist countries is that we get stuff for free, but the fact that the younger generations can get a free education and free medical care, is because of their mothers and fathers who paid high taxes in their working life, and as soon as the younger generations get out in the job market the task falls to them. So technically we don't get anything for free, it might seem that way, but no. |
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Fin moron do Taazokaan fen kod zeim ul | |
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| CarsAndGames | Jan 31 2012, 08:09 PM Post #7 |
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I've noticed that a lot of these socialist countries have a larger lower class of people. why is that |
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| SCScanlan | Jan 31 2012, 08:14 PM Post #8 |
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I still don't see why I should give up more of my money so other people can have free education, unemployment, paid retirement... those are things that people should work and plan for. Socialism is a pyramid scheme that lends itself to corruption of power and while it might work on a small scale (and without being a completely socialist state) it's a much harder concept to pull off with a big country. You're talking 5,544,139 compared to 307,006,550 people... twenty states have a larger population on their own than the country of Denmark does. Denmark people also, on average, work more hours than Americans and the countries median family income is lower. I just don't see what you're getting at except "people get free stuff". I'm not trying to be offensive either and I'm not angry in any way, I just don't see what a pure socialist nation would bring to the table. |
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| lol_pc | Jan 31 2012, 08:15 PM Post #9 |
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I can only speak for Scandinavian countries, but I know that we have a very low poverty rate compared to other developed countries. |
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Fin moron do Taazokaan fen kod zeim ul | |
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| CarsAndGames | Jan 31 2012, 08:18 PM Post #10 |
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Here's a list off the top of my head of a few socialist countries with a VERY large lower class and high poverty rate ( I'm speaking former and current) Cuba China Vietnam Congo North Korea - ( Yeah we all know how GREAT that one is run ) Somalia Afghanistan I know there are probably 15-20 more, but those are the ones that popped up when I thought poverty Edited by CarsAndGames, Jan 31 2012, 08:19 PM.
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| Soulless | Jan 31 2012, 08:39 PM Post #11 |
I killed Abeloth.
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Socialism doesn't work. Democracy hasn't really turned out so well for us either, but I digress. Socialism is one of the easiest to turn into tyrannical rule/dictatorship. Because any actual power is only in the hands of less than 1 percent, because all are "equal" and all should work towards the betterment of all, at the detriment of free-will and freedom, the economy suffers. The arts also suffer because creativity is stifled. In worst case scenarios, regular "witch hunts" are performed to root out any that may be tired of their lot in life and stupid enough to speak out about it. Our country has somehow devolved into something very close to socialism. As with any government, it is still run by imperfect human beings. However, the greed and impetus put on the opinions of lobbyists and such, is killing us. The middle class is almost gone and the lower class are growing more and more dependent on the government for everyday needs. THAT is the definition of a socialist/communist regime. The economic burdens are supported almost solely by the masses with those at the top controlling almost everything. Things look bleak for the US, but it will be many more years before our fall, and subsequent rise from the ashes after a revolution. Only when all our freedoms are swept away, will the lazy generations coming up finally realize it and do something. I could go on alot longer, but I tried to make this digestible. Edited by Soulless, Jan 31 2012, 08:46 PM.
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Death is certain, life is not. We have taken the noise of gunpowder as our rhythm and the sound of machine guns as our melody. | |
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| lol_pc | Jan 31 2012, 08:40 PM Post #12 |
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If you want to see it work on a larger scale, then all you have to do is look at most parts of northern Europe as a whole. Germany as an example have a largely similar welfare state as Denmark, and they have 81 million citizens Work more hours? The average dane works 37 hours a week, and minimum wage is the equivelant of $18 an hour and I personally haven't met many people who work for minimum wage. And capitalism can't lead to corruption? What caused the current financial crisis then? Any political ideology can be corrupted, but you can tame it, socialism works when combined with a free economy and democracy. |
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Fin moron do Taazokaan fen kod zeim ul | |
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| CarsAndGames | Jan 31 2012, 08:42 PM Post #13 |
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Holy shit your minimum wage is almost triple what ours is |
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| Soulless | Jan 31 2012, 08:43 PM Post #14 |
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I killed Abeloth.
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I just re-read all that and realize how crazy it sounds. And yet, I can't bring myself to change it. Corruption is present in any government type, and all of them have their own pros and cons. I'm just seriously disillusioned by all that I see going on and that my children are going to have a tough time of it. |
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Death is certain, life is not. We have taken the noise of gunpowder as our rhythm and the sound of machine guns as our melody. | |
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| lol_pc | Jan 31 2012, 08:43 PM Post #15 |
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Again, those aren't socialist countries, they are communistic countries there's quite a big difference between the 2, China claims to be a democratic nation (But come on, who actually believes that anymore?) |
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Fin moron do Taazokaan fen kod zeim ul | |
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| CarsAndGames | Jan 31 2012, 08:47 PM Post #16 |
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incorrect, they all BEGAN as socialist countries. |
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| Soulless | Jan 31 2012, 08:52 PM Post #17 |
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I killed Abeloth.
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And for the record, I don't fear socialism. There are some things about it that I really, really like. I want something along the lines of a socialist republic. There's nothing wrong with people working together, but I don't feel that they should be required to. I would love it if people would feel some sort of responsibility to each other instead of the selfish need to seek after things that don't bring fulfillment in life. |
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Death is certain, life is not. We have taken the noise of gunpowder as our rhythm and the sound of machine guns as our melody. | |
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| sdcpro | Feb 1 2012, 02:10 AM Post #18 |
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Yes but remember, they get taxed 40-44% of their salary. Still much higher than US but it almost looks just like a fancy number instead I know here in the US, the highest tax bracket currently is 35% and you have to be earning about $135,000 a year to qualify for that bracket. I'd like to join in this topic, however I honestly do not know enough to really contribute D:
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| metcar | Feb 1 2012, 03:50 AM Post #19 |
Remember there's no Fish Stick like Mrs.Pells.
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the united states hates socialism so much is because our government is bought and paid for by the ultra rich. and they see us as peasants basically. they've been actively trying to kill what socialistic programs we do allow like social security and medicare,also socialism would provide a government based competition to many industries that hold a monopoly such as medical insurance and pharmaceuticals wich is something they will not stand for. |
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My Youtube Channel My Facebook My 3DS Friend Code: 0946-2418-6363 / My PSN: metcar / Steam: metcar/Xbox Live: metalcarman  
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| Soulless | Feb 1 2012, 09:10 AM Post #20 |
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I killed Abeloth.
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Wanna know what's sad about that tax bracket? If I were to make $1,000,000 this year, I would actually pay a lower percentage of tax than someone making $60,000 because of tax loopholes, etc. Another funny thing, is that you can donate money to lower the amount of tax you have to pay. If you happen to be on the board of whatever charity that you donated to, you get the money right back after taxes (because you work there and charities pay their employees just like anyone else). Awesome right? |
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Death is certain, life is not. We have taken the noise of gunpowder as our rhythm and the sound of machine guns as our melody. | |
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| SCScanlan | Feb 1 2012, 01:34 PM Post #21 |
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Median Incomes United States - 31,111 Denmark - 22,461 It's not like unemployment rates are drastically different even with the small population either, that might explain why unemployment benefits were cut last summer eh? Besides, some socialist reforms don't make a country a socialist nation, maybe having some leaning towards socialist concepts isn't bad in some people's minds but seriously, go look up a list of truly socialist states and let me know which of them you would like to live in. |
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| prince_david | Feb 1 2012, 02:22 PM Post #22 |
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The problem is we can't afford to just give everyone services without creating a huge debt for the future. I am already pissed off enough that I have to pay so much money to taxes from the government then the government goes and wastes it on 40,000$ toilets or bridges to nowhere. If we expand the government to more socialist services it just leads to more money corruption. |
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| Blaseio | Feb 1 2012, 04:31 PM Post #23 |
"Don't step into the light, Jak! DON'T STEP INTO THE LIGHT!"
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Yes we hear you man, but the Elitist think other wise for us. We have to be monitored, educated "properly", and be consumers of their products. It's so sad to see small business and free enterprise be dominated by corporations. We always complain about our leadership after the fact we swore to them and voted. It goes in deeper then just thinking that the politicians think socialism is anti-American, but it is ironic how capitalism isn't. Throwing Molotov's into city hall isn't the answer though. |
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| lol_pc | Feb 2 2012, 01:53 AM Post #24 |
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When looking at those numbers, you also have to take into consideration that median income is heavily affected by the huge gap between rich and poor. And no unemployment has not been cut in Denmark, it was lowered from 4 years of government support to 2 years, to save money in the current financial crisis. Edited by lol_pc, Feb 2 2012, 01:55 AM.
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Fin moron do Taazokaan fen kod zeim ul | |
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| SCScanlan | Feb 3 2012, 01:25 PM Post #25 |
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That's a two two year cut brother. I agree that some programs would benefit from some reform with a slight socialistic bent but I really disapprove with extreme social spending. Social security should be private interest bearing accounts where you get what you put in... Seriously, Medicare, Medicaid, chip and social security account for more than a trillion dollars of the US budget, that includes health care or long term care to approx. 60 million people. Not only that but we had 496 BILLION Ho to programs designed to help people facing hardship. I don't know if people outside the US really see what the government does for people, its not like we just make everybody fend for themselves which is quite obvious from the amount we spend on social programs. |
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