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Consoles are going to change forever (E3 2015)
Topic Started: Jun 6 2015, 07:42 AM (586 Views)
leonk4
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With the release of the steam machines this year (oct 16th), Do you guys think that anyone else will follow suit? I'm predicting Xbox will do so. I think that, Microsoft will release modular consoles, meaning every year you will get new Xboxes better than the last. Just think Steam machines, but just made by Microsoft, and all Xbox One games will work on these consoles.

Now we could see history repeat itself where Sega did the same kinda thing, they kept releasing consoles over and over just to preserve the Genesis/MD. Eventually, Sega "died" because of this, and for other reasons too, but it definitely wasn't smart since it made their consumers distrust them. But now we live in a different age of technology, were people upgrade their iPads every year, Computers, and just alot more tech every year.

Me personally I think they can get away with it. It was only a matter of time before consoles started to make the switch to release new products every year, just like phones and tablets.
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NinjaPenguin8969
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Really just depends on the price. I don't know about other people but I would never pay $650+ every year for a slightly better gaming machine. (I put $650 because I have the i5 Alpha model so I'd have to get that one to upgrade). Then again I also only update my iPad once every 3 years or so, but to me I understand why people buy those every year since they're used for work, school, plane rides, etc and probably get a ton more use than a typical person gets out of their gaming systems. Valve needs to advertise the fuck out of these things because I just don't think Steam/Valve are a household name like Xbox, Nintendo, and Playstation.

Steam machines actually came out last year and if Alienware's offering shows what a new machine looks like a year later, then no thanks. The GPU is barely better and aside that it looks the same specs wise. Only positive thing they did was include a faster HDD to make it load things faster, but I installed an SSD so mine does that stuff fast anyway.

I just hope it doesn't go all streaming eventually. My internet is flaky at best.

I like my Alienware Alpha but it's a complementary console for me like the Wii U is. The PS4 is still my go to system.
Edited by NinjaPenguin8969, Jun 6 2015, 11:53 AM.
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MrTechnoSqueek
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I really don't see the point in consoles anymore I have become more of a pc gamer except I still play my old consoles and my girlfriend brought her wii u from her parents house so we can play stuff on that...I really think that's the way to go PC and Wii U.
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Unclever
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In all honesty I think there are a lot of hurdles for this to happen, and personal I wouldn’t want it to happen.

1) I am not convinced that the Steam Machine is going to be successful. Well when it was first announced there was a lot of support behind it, the closer we got to release the less enthusiastic people got, me included in this.

2) I personally feel that the XboxOne and PS4 kind of proved that super cutting edge tech don’t matter to the majority of games. In most generations when consoles come out they had the edge over PCs in terms of power. PCs overtook them in a year or so but when they first came out they had the edge or at lease were on par. This time around the consoles were a good year behind PCs and most people didn’t know any better and were still impressed with the power of the consoles.

3) People buy consoles over PCs for a reason, they want it simple. They buy the game with the XboxOne logo on it and it work in their machine. PCs can provide better graphic with more customization for games. Yet the console market blows the PC market out of the water in terms of sales. Suddenly you have to figure out what sku of the XboxOne console you need and it is almost as bad as a PC.

4) Why are developers going to make games of the later add-ons? If someone makes a game for one of the add-ons they are bring down their potential customers. If they make the game to the specs of the base unit that they know everyone, including the people with the new add-ons, can get the game they have the largest possible customer base. It is kind of the chicken or the egg argument. Customer aren’t going to get the new hardware until the developers make games for it and develops aren’t going to make games for it until the customers start buying it. With the current console cycle the devs and customers have the advantage of a noticeable increase in graphics and processing power, this helps push both sides to move to the next gen. If you only have a years’ difference the notability of the upgrade is going to be negligible.

5) Well I think you make a good point with the yearly upgrades with cellphones and tables, I don’t think people have the same mentality about cellphones\tables as they do video game consoles. People are perfectly OK with phones\tables being $600 every year, yet if a video game console is over $400 it is overpriced, and that will last them 5 year plus


6) I think the PC to Steam Machine comparison is the reverse of the XboxOne to Modular upgrade thing. The Steam machines is trying to simplify the PC process (we can go into a completely different augment about if I think this will be successful or not) making it more appealing to people who wouldn’t otherwise be interested in PC gaming. I other words PC gaming is trying to get a chunk of console gaming. A console going with the modular upgrade path would be making thing more complicated. This could possible push console players away but at the same time it still wouldn’t come near the functionality of a PC that the PC market might adopt it.
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Tr3vor
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I can maybe see consoles go the way of the smartphone, releasing updated, proprietary and non-modular consoles (very much unlike steam machines) every year or so and keeping the games compatible with older consoles. Maybe like 4 or 5 years of compatibility. This would keep it pretty simple, have a list of the 5 or so compatible consoles on the back of the box. Although backwards compatibility might be an issue (especially if they do an architecture change like ps3/360 to ps4/one), Depends on how they would implement it. If they nail it though, you can have the best of tech, and a HUGE library of great games.

I don't see them going the way of the PC, where they would be modular and tons of choice. I mean if they did that, just go PC. There would probably be the same issues on these "consoles" as there are on PCs, which is they don't test every hardware combination possible, causing problems.

Quote:
 
1) I am not convinced that the Steam Machine is going to be successful. Well when it was first announced there was a lot of support behind it, the closer we got to release the less enthusiastic people got, me included in this.


I think there would be more hype behind steam machines if they actually said anything. I haven't heard about steam machines in a long time. Maybe when it comes out, this will change.

Quote:
 
4) Why are developers going to make games of the later add-ons? If someone makes a game for one of the add-ons they are bring down their potential customers. If they make the game to the specs of the base unit that they know everyone, including the people with the new add-ons, can get the game they have the largest possible customer base. It is kind of the chicken or the egg argument. Customer aren’t going to get the new hardware until the developers make games for it and develops aren’t going to make games for it until the customers start buying it. With the current console cycle the devs and customers have the advantage of a noticeable increase in graphics and processing power, this helps push both sides to move to the next gen. If you only have a years’ difference the notability of the upgrade is going to be negligible.


Well if it happens the first way of the smart phone, you can get the game and it would work on newer and older hardware, so people who want the fancy stuff can get fancy stuff, and people who don't want it, don't have to.


I think the way of the smartphone would be very difficult to implement, so that will probably will never happen, but its an interesting idea if it could somehow happen. The way of the PC would be stupid, because if you want a PC, buy a PC, not a console.
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Unclever
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Tr3vor
Jun 7 2015, 01:07 AM
Quote:
 
4) Why are developers going to make games of the later add-ons? If someone makes a game for one of the add-ons they are bring down their potential customers. If they make the game to the specs of the base unit that they know everyone, including the people with the new add-ons, can get the game they have the largest possible customer base. It is kind of the chicken or the egg argument. Customer aren’t going to get the new hardware until the developers make games for it and develops aren’t going to make games for it until the customers start buying it. With the current console cycle the devs and customers have the advantage of a noticeable increase in graphics and processing power, this helps push both sides to move to the next gen. If you only have a years’ difference the notability of the upgrade is going to be negligible.


Well if it happens the first way of the smart phone, you can get the game and it would work on newer and older hardware, so people who want the fancy stuff can get fancy stuff, and people who don't want it, don't have to.
But that is my whole point. If you have a console and 3 upgrades to that console why is someone going to make a game for the latest upgrade? Then only the people with the latest version can play it. If they make a game that works on the basic specs then anyone with that console can play it. To make this model successful the manufacture would need a reason for consumers to adopt the new upgrade quickly. AAA games take 2 plus year to develop. If console makers want developer to spend all that time and money and then make it compliable only with the latest version of hardware, the console makers have to give the developers a good amount of certainty that there will be a high adoption rate. I am unsure how they can do that.

Cellphone have an advantage. Video game are a bonus to the cellphone you get, video game are the reason why you get a console. Why are developers going shrink their audience by making games that wouldn’t work on older version and why are customers going to upgrade if games aren’t being to take advantage of the newer hardware?
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90sgamer92
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Jun 6 2015, 07:48 PM

3) People buy consoles over PCs for a reason, they want it simple. They buy the game with the XboxOne logo on it and it work in their machine. PCs can provide better graphic with more customization for games. Yet the console market blows the PC market out of the water in terms of sales. Suddenly you have to figure out what sku of the XboxOne console you need and it is almost as bad as a PC.

That's not true, PC game sales surpassed consoles sales back in 2011 or 2012 IIRC
http://techreport.com/news/26380/analyst-global-pc-game-sales-surpass-consoles

The simplicity argument doesn't really hold water anymore. Buying games on Steam and GOG is literally just pressing the install button and playing the game once it's finished (way different compare to the 90s when you had to be tech literate and know how computers work to some extent to be a PC gamer), where as consoles these days have updates, online DRM, patches and other things that slow you down a lot.

I do think that consoles should go back to the way they were in the 90s: plug in and play, simple as that. Get rid of netflix, adds, youtube, streaming and all the unnessecary stuff, just boil it down to basics (SNES/PS1 style, which already acted as a CD player). That would reduce cost and the price of consoles as well, and maybe make them more reliable.
Check out my youtube channel for retro game reviews
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Nathan
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Edited by Nathan, Jun 7 2015, 01:41 PM.
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Tr3vor
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Jun 7 2015, 04:02 AM
Tr3vor
Jun 7 2015, 01:07 AM
Quote:
 
4) Why are developers going to make games of the later add-ons? If someone makes a game for one of the add-ons they are bring down their potential customers. If they make the game to the specs of the base unit that they know everyone, including the people with the new add-ons, can get the game they have the largest possible customer base. It is kind of the chicken or the egg argument. Customer aren’t going to get the new hardware until the developers make games for it and develops aren’t going to make games for it until the customers start buying it. With the current console cycle the devs and customers have the advantage of a noticeable increase in graphics and processing power, this helps push both sides to move to the next gen. If you only have a years’ difference the notability of the upgrade is going to be negligible.


Well if it happens the first way of the smart phone, you can get the game and it would work on newer and older hardware, so people who want the fancy stuff can get fancy stuff, and people who don't want it, don't have to.
But that is my whole point. If you have a console and 3 upgrades to that console why is someone going to make a game for the latest upgrade? Then only the people with the latest version can play it. If they make a game that works on the basic specs then anyone with that console can play it. To make this model successful the manufacture would need a reason for consumers to adopt the new upgrade quickly. AAA games take 2 plus year to develop. If console makers want developer to spend all that time and money and then make it compliable only with the latest version of hardware, the console makers have to give the developers a good amount of certainty that there will be a high adoption rate. I am unsure how they can do that.

Cellphone have an advantage. Video game are a bonus to the cellphone you get, video game are the reason why you get a console. Why are developers going shrink their audience by making games that wouldn’t work on older version and why are customers going to upgrade if games aren’t being to take advantage of the newer hardware?


What I meant by "the way of the cell phone" wasn't hardware upgrades. I meant new versions of the console. When new games come out they would work with the new consoles and the old ones. I wasn't thinking of sega style upgrades. I think the reason people upgrade their phones is because of games most of the time. You can still use a first generation iphone to call people, but that would limit the use of apps and games.


90sgamer92
Jun 7 2015, 08:02 AM
Unclever
Jun 6 2015, 07:48 PM

3) People buy consoles over PCs for a reason, they want it simple. They buy the game with the XboxOne logo on it and it work in their machine. PCs can provide better graphic with more customization for games. Yet the console market blows the PC market out of the water in terms of sales. Suddenly you have to figure out what sku of the XboxOne console you need and it is almost as bad as a PC.



The simplicity argument doesn't really hold water anymore. Buying games on Steam and GOG is literally just pressing the install button and playing the game once it's finished (way different compare to the 90s when you had to be tech literate and know how computers work to some extent to be a PC gamer), where as consoles these days have updates, online DRM, patches and other things that slow you down a lot.

I do think that consoles should go back to the way they were in the 90s: plug in and play, simple as that. Get rid of netflix, adds, youtube, streaming and all the unnessecary stuff, just boil it down to basics (SNES/PS1 style, which already acted as a CD player). That would reduce cost and the price of consoles as well, and maybe make them more reliable.


Tried playing GTA4 on PC? Not simple. Ever try playing a game on a lower end PC? not really simple. You typically have to have some know how to get it to run good. I see tons of people bitch about how PC games run like shit because they don't have some $2000 rig, and that's because they don't know how to tweak the settings. Simplicity is not out of the story.

I see people buy consoles just to use Netflix, so why would they ever get rid of it? Consoles are already reliable. Its not really netflix, ads or youtube's fault the 360 had the RRoD problem. If the 360 ditched all that, it would still be a piece of shit. There is literally no downsides to having extra fuctionality for little to no extra price.
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90sgamer92
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Jun 7 2015, 01:16 PM
Tried playing GTA4 on PC? Not simple. Ever try playing a game on a lower end PC? not really simple. You typically have to have some know how to get it to run good. I see tons of people bitch about how PC games run like shit because they don't have some $2000 rig, and that's because they don't know how to tweak the settings. Simplicity is not out of the story.

I see people buy consoles just to use Netflix, so why would they ever get rid of it? Consoles are already reliable. Its not really netflix, ads or youtube's fault the 360 had the RRoD problem. If the 360 ditched all that, it would still be a piece of shit. There is literally no downsides to having extra fuctionality for little to no extra price.
I haven't as I mostly play older games, but I've never had any problems when I've bought recent/AAA games. What do you mean by tweaking settings? I agree that if you have to mess with ini files it's not what I'd call plug in and play, but any one can turn down the grapics settings if the game is running too low (and there's usually tool tips for all technical on/off options).

As for netflix and other features like that (ads are just visual pollution that have no place in a produt you pay money for), I like the Nintendo approach of dedicating your consoles to playing video games. Simply because it will reflect on the games, if there's a large install base of non gamers/"casuals", developers will try to cater to that market. I prefer the "purity" of gameplay centric titles like Mario Kart and Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze to AAA games that are trying to be movies/appeal for a large mass market. Compare NES/SNES (or even N64) library to Wii library, which is filled with shovelware sports games? That's not say that there isn't a lot of trash on NES or that Wii hasn't got its gems, but it's clear that NES/SNES had different priorities and overall stronger game libraries.
Check out my youtube channel for retro game reviews
Systems: Odyssey 2, Atari 2600+7800, Intellivision, Colecovision, NES, SMS, Dendy (Famiclone), PC Engine+CD, Turbografx, PC Engine Duo R, SNES (EU+USA), Mega Drive (EU+JP), Genesis, Sega CD, 32X, Jaguar+CD, Amiga CD32, 3DO, CDi, Neo Geo AES, Neo Geo CD, Neo Geo CMVS, Saturn, N64, PS1, PSOne (USA), Dreamcast, PS2 Slim, PS2 (JP), GC, Xbox, PS3, Wii, Xbox 360, PS4, Commodore 64, Amiga 500+, Atari 520 STfm, PSP, PS Vita, 3DS(XL), GBA, GBC, Virtual Boy, Game Gear, Game.com, Atari Lynx, Wonderswan Color, Neo Geo Pocket Color, N Gage QD
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Tr3vor
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90sgamer92
Jun 8 2015, 10:44 AM
Tr3vor
Jun 7 2015, 01:16 PM
Tried playing GTA4 on PC? Not simple. Ever try playing a game on a lower end PC? not really simple. You typically have to have some know how to get it to run good. I see tons of people bitch about how PC games run like shit because they don't have some $2000 rig, and that's because they don't know how to tweak the settings. Simplicity is not out of the story.

I see people buy consoles just to use Netflix, so why would they ever get rid of it? Consoles are already reliable. Its not really netflix, ads or youtube's fault the 360 had the RRoD problem. If the 360 ditched all that, it would still be a piece of shit. There is literally no downsides to having extra fuctionality for little to no extra price.
I haven't as I mostly play older games, but I've never had any problems when I've bought recent/AAA games. What do you mean by tweaking settings? I agree that if you have to mess with ini files it's not what I'd call plug in and play, but any one can turn down the grapics settings if the game is running too low (and there's usually tool tips for all technical on/off options).

As for netflix and other features like that (ads are just visual pollution that have no place in a produt you pay money for), I like the Nintendo approach of dedicating your consoles to playing video games. Simply because it will reflect on the games, if there's a large install base of non gamers/"casuals", developers will try to cater to that market. I prefer the "purity" of gameplay centric titles like Mario Kart and Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze to AAA games that are trying to be movies/appeal for a large mass market. Compare NES/SNES (or even N64) library to Wii library, which is filled with shovelware sports games? That's not say that there isn't a lot of trash on NES or that Wii hasn't got its gems, but it's clear that NES/SNES had different priorities and overall stronger game libraries.
What I mean by tweaking settings is that people don't look in the settings menus and just play it at the game's default settings. Most of the time that means that its too much for their PCs to handle, so they complain about the framerate/experience without knowing they should turn down the graphics.

The Wii, Wii U and 3ds have access to Netflix, Youtube, etc, so its not like they completely dedicate their consoles to games only.
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